Ruth Oldenziel is pessimistic about what’s currently happening in the United States. The professor at IE&IS completed her PhD at Yale. As editor-in-chief of the American journal Technology and Culture, she maintains a wide network in the US. “In his first term, Trump was still perplexed that his public relations stunt had won him the presidency, but ever since he was sworn in a second time he has been very proactive,” Oldenziel says. “He’s systematically executing the Project 2025 plan the conservative think tank The Heritage Foundation is providing him with, driven by grievances and a thirst for power.”

The opposing forces that still stirred during Trump’s first term – from within the Republican Party, Congress, and the civil service – have been defused. “And Elon Musk and his tech boys, who are anti-government, have joined the fray,” Oldenziel says. She doesn’t even have complete trust that Trump will call another democratic election in four years. “But even if a new president is elected then, it will take at least half a century to repair all the damage. Tearing something down is easier than building it up.”

Are you equally worried about the Trump administration’s actions when it comes to science?

“There’s every reason for concern. For a government that runs on emotion, scaremongering, and falsehoods, knowledge is the enemy. As a result, Trump has launched an all-out assault on science. Research funding bodies are losing budgets, scientists working for the government are being fired, and authorities are no longer publishing reports. Moreover, Trump has launched a campaign against top universities such as Columbia, Harvard, and Princeton.”

Do you personally notice the effects of the measures in your work?

“I regularly participate in discussions with fellow editors of a large number of American scientific journals. Recently, the discussion has revolved around the question: should we allow authors to publish anonymously in our journals?

“Some editors-in-chief said: ‘We should absolutely give researchers that opportunity, allowing them to protect themselves,’ while others thought it was a very bad idea. I myself am on the fence. The possibility of scientists getting into trouble is real, and their inclination to stay under the radar understandable. At the same time, self-censorship is also a very great enemy of science. Researchers should be able to write down the results of their work without reservation.”

What signals do you get from contacts in the US?

“Many scientists are seriously thinking about leaving America. A large survey recently showed that 75 percent are considering it. I myself know a number of colleagues who have made applications in countries like France. They work at the most prestigious universities and have high positions, but are nevertheless very concerned. One of them was told off the record that NEH had granted her an important award, only to discover the nomination was off the table a few weeks later. Someone else is losing half of his job as of June because the budget for a research center was suddenly withdrawn. And I’m talking about absolute top performers in my field.”

“I also hear about universities trying to protect their international students. We know the stories about students having to leave after participating in a protest, but meanwhile visas are also being revoked without cause. Based on nothing. The University of Michigan has urged students and all staff to keep a certain assistance phone number with them at all times, even if, the email in question states, they’re separated from their phones.”

In spite of everything, do you also see opportunities?

“In the 1930s, many scientists fled Nazism, particularly to the US as irony would have it. That gave a huge boost to American scientific, cultural, and political power. If I had to mention a positive side of the current situation, it’s that we can now bring all these bright minds here, to help enrich and promote our democratic values, which have come under so much pressure in the US.”

“One condition to bringing American scientists to the Netherlands is for the government to free up funds. The budget has to be increased. You cannot fire your own people first and then attract international replacements. If we also take care of our own scientists, this is the opportunity of the century.”

What do you think TU/e itself could or should do?

“Pax Americana is coming to an end and free trade and democracy are under pressure. The question is: what will Europe do? What are our values and how do we protect them? In this regard, not only defense is important, but data technology as well. Did you know that Bill Gates made a deal with the Netherlands back in 1985? Forty years later, Microsoft still has the monopoly in our education space. Because we surrendered our data to the market, most of it is now on American servers. We need to look at this again at the European level. TU/e has a role to play here, by investigating whether we can offer alternatives to the American players.”

“At the same time, the university itself must also remain vigilant about protecting academic values, thereby providing a counterweight to mistreatments in the US. Consider, for example, the new plans for screening students and scholars working with sensitive information. We shouldn’t be naive in this respect, but we must uphold basic rule of law standards.”